NMNNMN - insomnia help

Goldfish
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Joined: Sat Jul 31, 2021 10:20 am

NMN - insomnia help

Post by Goldfish »

Hello all,

I got inspired by David Sinclair to start taking NMN, TMG, CBD oil and metformin in order to improve longevity. 

I started off by taking (250mg) of metformin and 20% CBD oil for around three weeks.

After adding NMN (250mg) and TMG (500mg) I started experiencing insomnia, I took this new combination for a week in total then stopped all four, and have been left with bad insomnia which hasn't resolved itself even 7 months after stopping all supplementation. 

Prior to this I've never had a problem sleeping before, is there anything you would recommend I do to try and reverse what happened? 

Grateful for any thoughts and replies!

NMN - Alivebyscience
TMG - DoNotAge
CBD - Holistic Hemp
Metformin - prescription - from a family member 

Goldfish


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jocko6889
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Location: Tulsa, OK

Re: NMN - insomnia help

Post by jocko6889 »

Goldfish wrote: Sat Jul 31, 2021 10:24 am Hello all,

I got inspired by David Sinclair to start taking NMN, TMG, CBD oil and metformin in order to improve longevity. 

I started off by taking (250mg) of metformin and 20% CBD oil for around three weeks.

After adding NMN (250mg) and TMG (500mg) I started experiencing insomnia, I took this new combination for a week in total then stopped all four, and have been left with bad insomnia which hasn't resolved itself even 7 months after stopping all supplementation. 

Prior to this I've never had a problem sleeping before, is there anything you would recommend I do to try and reverse what happened? 

Grateful for any thoughts and replies!

NMN - Alivebyscience
TMG - DoNotAge
CBD - Holistic Hemp
Metformin - prescription - from a family member 

Goldfish

 
None of these would stay in your system for more than a week, so there must be something else going on.  I would see your doctor.
 
Newage
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Re: NMN - insomnia help

Post by Newage »

Insomnia can develop very quickly for a variety of reasons and within a short time you end up in a vicious cycle.If you tolerated the CBD oil ok it probably should have helped with your sleep. 
I believe insomnia can be as much a mental issue as physical if not more so. It seems the harder an individual try’s to force sleep the harder it is to drop off.
With what we are all experiencing in the World at the present time I think there would be a large percentage of populations with sleep issues. As Jocko suggested a visit to your personal physician that has your history would be the first “port of call” to try and determine any possible underlying issues.
Good luck with it all as your sleep is a very beneficial factor in the overall picture. Try and find a holistic way to break the problem cycle.
Boxcost
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Joined: Fri Nov 08, 2019 10:40 pm

Re: NMN - insomnia help

Post by Boxcost »

I would agree, see your doctor if it gets really bad but also make sure you are armed with all the knowledge and advice from these these 2 experts:

Dr Satchin Panda
https://mycircadianclock.org/
 - His app / tracking initiative, some good interviews with him on youtube as well

Matt Walker:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5MuIMqhT8DM

Great Peter Attia Matt Walker podcast..
https://peterattiamd.com/matthewwalker1/

Of all the drugs that help with sleep, Matt thinks CBD has a lot of promise, discusses this in this podcast series

All the best.

Noting on NMN, early use in the morning or no later than 2-3PM for me = no impact on sleep. Later use in the day over time eventually disrupted my sleep, took about 2-3 week on .5G per day taking .125g just before bed (initially had great deep sleep so was encouraged, but did not last)
 
TedB
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Joined: Wed May 19, 2021 1:55 pm

Re: NMN - insomnia help

Post by TedB »

I can see somethings new, but even NMN causing sleep issues if you take a lot after supper, or higher doses of the times release version and then perhaps lasting a day or two... but what you are describing doesn't sound like it could be caused by taking a substance that boosts a compound naturally found in our bodies.

also - sleep is your friend. You wan't to address what is going on. IF there are emotional causes or anxiety/bad thoughts ... then it may be worth exploring these issues with a professional.

If there isn't, then i would keep exploring until you have solved the problem. Chronic lack of sleep is as big of a health issue as chronic inflammation.

I have read a couple fellow users who take a sedative every night for sleep. While that seems extreme, one also reports have an average of 7.5 hours of sleep per night for decades. That is a very good thing.
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jocko6889
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Re: NMN - insomnia help

Post by jocko6889 »

Personally, I don't think lack of sleep in relation to NAD+ boosters is addressed enough.  Perhaps only a small percentage of people on NAD+ boosters have an issue.  There's just not enough data to know for sure. 

In my case, lack of sleep directly coincides with my taking too much NMN.  I have to back off, reset, and start again.  That's the only way.  Otherwise, I get into a situation where I'm losing sleep here and there for weeks, causing a big deficit to build up, with corresponding loss of energy and cognition.  Not good.  Best to monitor my dose and my sleep each day and make adjustments accordingly before it becomes an issue. 

Dealing with this problem has produced at least some desirable changes.  I am now a stickler for going to bed and waking up at the same time every day.  I'm also very attuned to the quality of my sleep.  I also have come to understand that getting enough sleep is as or more important than any supplement I can possibly take.  In fact, if you were to regard sleep as a supplement it would be by far the most important one.   I also don't believe in taking anything strong to help with sleep, such as ambien.  I think these things are a crutch and can become a bad habit.  Figure out how to make the changes necessary to get a full night's sleep naturally.

So my advice to anyone taking NAD+ boosters would be that they're great but only in conjunction with a good night's sleep.  If you're on a fairly low dose of NMN (as I am) and still have sleep issues, it means your body is probably already making decent amounts of NAD+ on it's own - something many people starting out on NMN don't think to consider.  Making enough NAD+ on your own is actually a good thing.  Don't rock the boat by insisting your body take even more NAD+ just because you're stuck on the idea that you're a certain age, so therefore you must need to supplement X amount.  Let your body be the ultimate judge and pay attention to what it's telling you.
 
SunConure
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Joined: Tue Jul 06, 2021 8:28 pm

Re: NMN - insomnia help

Post by SunConure »

jocko6889 wrote: Mon Aug 02, 2021 3:11 pm Personally, I don't think lack of sleep in relation to NAD+ boosters is addressed enough.  Perhaps only a small percentage of people on NAD+ boosters have an issue.  There's just not enough data to know for sure. 

In my case, lack of sleep directly coincides with my taking too much NMN.  I have to back off, reset, and start again.  That's the only way.  Otherwise, I get into a situation where I'm losing sleep here and there for weeks, causing a big deficit to build up, with corresponding loss of energy and cognition.  Not good.  Best to monitor my dose and my sleep each day and make adjustments accordingly before it becomes an issue. 

Dealing with this problem has produced at least some desirable changes.  I am now a stickler for going to bed and waking up at the same time every day.  I'm also very attuned to the quality of my sleep.  I also have come to understand that getting enough sleep is as or more important than any supplement I can possibly take.  In fact, if you were to regard sleep as a supplement it would be by far the most important one.   I also don't believe in taking anything strong to help with sleep, such as ambien.  I think these things are a crutch and can become a bad habit.  Figure out how to make the changes necessary to get a full night's sleep naturally.

So my advice to anyone taking NAD+ boosters would be that they're great but only in conjunction with a good night's sleep.  If you're on a fairly low dose of NMN (as I am) and still have sleep issues, it means your body is probably already making decent amounts of NAD+ on it's own - something many people starting out on NMN don't think to consider.  Making enough NAD+ on your own is actually a good thing.  Don't rock the boat by insisting your body take even more NAD+ just because you're stuck on the idea that you're a certain age, so therefore you must need to supplement X amount.  Let your body be the ultimate judge and pay attention to what it's telling you.
 


 
I took ambien (0.5-1 pill / night) for 3 weeks in May due to high stress from work.  It made my insomnia much worse on the days without the pill.  Horrible drug withdraw symptoms - complete loss of sleep for days.  Tried a natural sleep aid, and also sleep/get up at the same time everyday, now my sleep quality is better than ever.

What's the half-life of the LIPO NMN capsules?  Isn't NAD+ production in the body supposed to be in sync with Circadian Rhythms?  So you would expect lower NAD+ level at night.  If the capsule is 24 hours timed release, it might mess up your biological clock, no?
 
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jocko6889
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Re: NMN - insomnia help

Post by jocko6889 »

SunConure wrote: Tue Aug 03, 2021 12:29 am
jocko6889 wrote: Mon Aug 02, 2021 3:11 pm Personally, I don't think lack of sleep in relation to NAD+ boosters is addressed enough.  Perhaps only a small percentage of people on NAD+ boosters have an issue.  There's just not enough data to know for sure. 

In my case, lack of sleep directly coincides with my taking too much NMN.  I have to back off, reset, and start again.  That's the only way.  Otherwise, I get into a situation where I'm losing sleep here and there for weeks, causing a big deficit to build up, with corresponding loss of energy and cognition.  Not good.  Best to monitor my dose and my sleep each day and make adjustments accordingly before it becomes an issue. 

Dealing with this problem has produced at least some desirable changes.  I am now a stickler for going to bed and waking up at the same time every day.  I'm also very attuned to the quality of my sleep.  I also have come to understand that getting enough sleep is as or more important than any supplement I can possibly take.  In fact, if you were to regard sleep as a supplement it would be by far the most important one.   I also don't believe in taking anything strong to help with sleep, such as ambien.  I think these things are a crutch and can become a bad habit.  Figure out how to make the changes necessary to get a full night's sleep naturally.

So my advice to anyone taking NAD+ boosters would be that they're great but only in conjunction with a good night's sleep.  If you're on a fairly low dose of NMN (as I am) and still have sleep issues, it means your body is probably already making decent amounts of NAD+ on it's own - something many people starting out on NMN don't think to consider.  Making enough NAD+ on your own is actually a good thing.  Don't rock the boat by insisting your body take even more NAD+ just because you're stuck on the idea that you're a certain age, so therefore you must need to supplement X amount.  Let your body be the ultimate judge and pay attention to what it's telling you.
 



 
I took ambien (0.5-1 pill / night) for 3 weeks in May due to high stress from work.  It made my insomnia much worse on the days without the pill.  Horrible drug withdraw symptoms - complete loss of sleep for days.  Tried a natural sleep aid, and also sleep/get up at the same time everyday, now my sleep quality is better than ever.

What's the half-life of the LIPO NMN capsules?  Isn't NAD+ production in the body supposed to be in sync with Circadian Rhythms?  So you would expect lower NAD+ level at night.  If the capsule is 24 hours timed release, it might mess up your biological clock, no?
 

 
In regards to Ambien, I agree it's highly addictive after even 1 or 2 nights.  It's also rather dangerous as it suppresses breathing. Mixing with other drugs can be lethal.  

Regarding the new LIPO capsules, they are indeed time released over up to 24 hours.  It probably wouldn't bother most people but I'm a bit sensitive so that little extra at night keeps me up.  I like liposomal delivery, though because it's much more bioavailable so I like to use the Liposomal NMN Gel in the morning, which is not time released.

You are correct in that NAD+ production is in sync with your Circadian Rhythm, however this rhythm is different for everyone, making it difficult to know the optimal times to administer NMN.
 
RobSmith
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Location: UK

Re: NMN - insomnia help

Post by RobSmith »

jocko6889 wrote: Mon Aug 02, 2021 3:11 pm I also have come to understand that getting enough sleep is as or more important than any supplement I can possibly take.  In fact, if you were to regard sleep as a supplement it would be by far the most important one. 

 
I would totally agree (and exercise comes a close second). 
I regard Matthew Walker as the guru on all things related to sleep and I'm sure that if you follow all his tips you will sort out your sleep problems soon enough. 
In the meantime, cut back on the NMN/NAD+ and only take it in the morning. 
SunConure
Posts: 16
Joined: Tue Jul 06, 2021 8:28 pm

Re: NMN - insomnia help

Post by SunConure »

jocko6889 wrote: Tue Aug 03, 2021 5:54 am
SunConure wrote: Tue Aug 03, 2021 12:29 am
jocko6889 wrote: Mon Aug 02, 2021 3:11 pm Personally, I don't think lack of sleep in relation to NAD+ boosters is addressed enough.  Perhaps only a small percentage of people on NAD+ boosters have an issue.  There's just not enough data to know for sure. 

In my case, lack of sleep directly coincides with my taking too much NMN.  I have to back off, reset, and start again.  That's the only way.  Otherwise, I get into a situation where I'm losing sleep here and there for weeks, causing a big deficit to build up, with corresponding loss of energy and cognition.  Not good.  Best to monitor my dose and my sleep each day and make adjustments accordingly before it becomes an issue. 

Dealing with this problem has produced at least some desirable changes.  I am now a stickler for going to bed and waking up at the same time every day.  I'm also very attuned to the quality of my sleep.  I also have come to understand that getting enough sleep is as or more important than any supplement I can possibly take.  In fact, if you were to regard sleep as a supplement it would be by far the most important one.   I also don't believe in taking anything strong to help with sleep, such as ambien.  I think these things are a crutch and can become a bad habit.  Figure out how to make the changes necessary to get a full night's sleep naturally.

So my advice to anyone taking NAD+ boosters would be that they're great but only in conjunction with a good night's sleep.  If you're on a fairly low dose of NMN (as I am) and still have sleep issues, it means your body is probably already making decent amounts of NAD+ on it's own - something many people starting out on NMN don't think to consider.  Making enough NAD+ on your own is actually a good thing.  Don't rock the boat by insisting your body take even more NAD+ just because you're stuck on the idea that you're a certain age, so therefore you must need to supplement X amount.  Let your body be the ultimate judge and pay attention to what it's telling you.
 







 
I took ambien (0.5-1 pill / night) for 3 weeks in May due to high stress from work.  It made my insomnia much worse on the days without the pill.  Horrible drug withdraw symptoms - complete loss of sleep for days.  Tried a natural sleep aid, and also sleep/get up at the same time everyday, now my sleep quality is better than ever.

What's the half-life of the LIPO NMN capsules?  Isn't NAD+ production in the body supposed to be in sync with Circadian Rhythms?  So you would expect lower NAD+ level at night.  If the capsule is 24 hours timed release, it might mess up your biological clock, no?
 





 
In regards to Ambien, I agree it's highly addictive after even 1 or 2 nights.  It's also rather dangerous as it suppresses breathing. Mixing with other drugs can be lethal.  

Regarding the new LIPO capsules, they are indeed time released over up to 24 hours.  It probably wouldn't bother most people but I'm a bit sensitive so that little extra at night keeps me up.  I like liposomal delivery, though because it's much more bioavailable so I like to use the Liposomal NMN Gel in the morning, which is not time released.

You are correct in that NAD+ production is in sync with your Circadian Rhythm, however this rhythm is different for everyone, making it difficult to know the optimal times to administer NMN.
 




 
Thanks for the detailed reply!  Didn't know Ambien can suppress breathing!  Maybe that's why I was getting headache?

Does timed release mean the number of molecules released into the blood stream per second is a constant within 24 hours, and only decline after 24 hours?

NMN LIPO Gel would probably work better for me than the capsules.  Approximately how long do you feel the effects after administration?

I'm planning to order some NMN supplements for friends that live in a country where ABS doesn't deliver to.  So I would have to ship to them after I get the NMN from ABS.  I wonder if the customs will refuse it due to it's a liquid.  I might have to buy the capsules version then.
 
 
 
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