NMN ⇒ Brenner criticisms of Sinclair NMN/resveratrol work: thoughts?

[pparker]

Charles Brenner, who discovered NR is a NAD precursor IIUC, has some serious criticisms of Sinclair's recent NMN and NMN/resveratrol work in his talk opening the 2021 Longevity Summit a couple weeks ago:
https://twitter.com/i/broadcasts/1YqJDqMgkWQxV

Among other points he discusses reasons to believe that sirtuins are not longevity genes, why it is highly unlikely any particular small set of genes would substantially increase longevity, and some methodological issues with Sinclair's Nature paper.  At the same time, he does not appear to have an axe to grind as far as I can tell from this talk.

I have no expertise in this field myself, and as I am taking NMN and NMN/resveratrol info to my doc tomorrow for review I am very curious what other people make of Brenner's talk.  NMN and NMN/resveratrol have been very helpful to me, but after considerable research I am uncertain just how safe they really are for long term use, mostly due to the very limited human trials but also due to some research evidence that NR vs NMN and exact dosage seem to make a considerable difference.  Brenner claims he is about to release a paper showing substantial and important differences between the different forms of B3.  I have searched these forums for Brenner's name and did not see any serious criticisms of him, although I'm not sure there was much in the NMN forum.

What do you guys think?

Paul
 
 

[jocko6889]

Brenner is a paid advocate for Chromadex, who sells NR.  You can make your own judgement on how objective a source that would make him.   I don't personally agree with many of his recent proclamations in regards to NMN or Resveratrol.

Many of us follow the work of Dr. David Sinclair at Harvard, who is well known to be probably the leading longevity expert in the world.  He is famous for his NMN mouse studies but also more recently, the advancement of techniques in genetic reprogramming in order to roll back the age of certain tissues in mice.

Whether you can call sirtuins "longevity genes" or not, there is no doubt they serve as the body's self repair genes and are dependent on NAD+ to function.  Does it mean you will live longer by promoting sirtuins?  

Sinclair takes NMN and Resveratrol daily and believes these are important supplements for longer healthspan and perhaps lifespan as well, in part due to the effect they have in promoting the sirtuins.  He probably has studied both for longer and in more depth than any other researcher in the world, so I trust his judgement but of course like all of us should, I do my own due diligence. 

As I understand, Sinclair will be responding to criticisms of NMN and Resveratrol soon, perhaps next month.  I have no doubt he will put the concerns of many people like Brenner to rest, although I have serious doubts Brenner would ever admit it.

[pparker]

Thank you Jocko!  That's extremely helpful.  I did not realize Brenner was affiliated with TruNiagen;  that's an important fact.  (A quick Google showed an FDA letter to Chromadex for advertising early on in CoViD that TruNiagen helped with CoViD (basic claim:  low NAD levels make CoViD worse).  While that might be true, they should have known they couldn't advertise that.)

Question about Sinclair:  I saw a statement by him today that he doesn't make any money from supplements.  OTOH, I've seen claims that he is part owner of ~20 longevity related companies.  Do you have any idea how this actually sorts out?  Perhaps he is involved with a number of companies that hope to make related pharmaceuticals?

Paul

[MJClark]

Thank you Jocko!  That's extremely helpful.  I did not realize Brenner was affiliated with TruNiagen;  that's an important fact.  (A quick Google showed an FDA letter to Chromadex for advertising early on in CoViD that TruNiagen helped with CoViD (basic claim:  low NAD levels make CoViD worse).  While that might be true, they should have known they couldn't advertise that.)

Question about Sinclair:  I saw a statement by him today that he doesn't make any money from supplements.  OTOH, I've seen claims that he is part owner of ~20 longevity related companies.  Do you have any idea how this actually sorts out?  Perhaps he is involved with a number of companies that hope to make related pharmaceuticals?

Paul

 

I know he is involved with inside tracker which I think just does testing and tracking. 


On a side note, attacking Dr. Sinclair's work does not appear to be anything new. Pfizer attacked his resveratrol claims a bit more than a decade ago, claiming their studies show no effect. GSK said otherwise. 

Personally, I while I don't know much about all of this, I do know that there will always be someone to refute any and every claim, study, or paper out there. It is just weeding through who is telling the truth and it often involves following the money. 

[jessicaP]

The thing about Dr. Sinclair is that he is studying aging and how to reverse it. In fact the first thing out of his mouth is fasting. He is very careful about making claims.

But his knowledge of the field is simply unrivalled. And disputing the role of Sirtuins at this point is a bit too obvious for me.

These companies that have gone 'all in' on NR have made a mistake... now they have to try to discredit numerous findings rather than trying to make a good Nad precursor, as in ABS's case, numerous NAD+ precursors.

I have done my own homework. I have ready many, many studies for NMN and NR (both of which we can get here at ABS) and I prefer NMN as it is far more successful in studies that have been performed.

I don't know who Brenner is... but Dr. David Sinclair is a giant who discovered Resveratrol AND NMN and how they work together. MOre importantly he understands how perceived adversity gets our bodies to become healthier. He is the global expert.
 

[Newage]

The thing about Dr. Sinclair is that he is studying aging and how to reverse it. In fact the first thing out of his mouth is fasting. He is very careful about making claims.

But his knowledge of the field is simply unrivalled. And disputing the role of Sirtuins at this point is a bit too obvious for me.

These companies that have gone 'all in' on NR have made a mistake... now they have to try to discredit numerous findings rather than trying to make a good Nad precursor, as in ABS's case, numerous NAD+ precursors.

I have done my own homework. I have ready many, many studies for NMN and NR (both of which we can get here at ABS) and I prefer NMN as it is far more successful in studies that have been performed.

I don't know who Brenner is... but Dr. David Sinclair is a giant who discovered Resveratrol AND NMN and how they work together. MOre importantly he understands how perceived adversity gets our bodies to become healthier. He is the global expert.
 

 

Again I agree JessicaP, and apart from all of  your above positive points Sinclair is Australian..
That say’s volumes about the man, doesn’t it Boxcost...
 

[Boxcost]

The thing about Dr. Sinclair is that he is studying aging and how to reverse it. In fact the first thing out of his mouth is fasting. He is very careful about making claims.

But his knowledge of the field is simply unrivalled. And disputing the role of Sirtuins at this point is a bit too obvious for me.

These companies that have gone 'all in' on NR have made a mistake... now they have to try to discredit numerous findings rather than trying to make a good Nad precursor, as in ABS's case, numerous NAD+ precursors.

I have done my own homework. I have ready many, many studies for NMN and NR (both of which we can get here at ABS) and I prefer NMN as it is far more successful in studies that have been performed.

I don't know who Brenner is... but Dr. David Sinclair is a giant who discovered Resveratrol AND NMN and how they work together. MOre importantly he understands how perceived adversity gets our bodies to become healthier. He is the global expert.
 



 

Again I agree JessicaP, and apart from all of  your above positive points Sinclair is Australian..
That say’s volumes about the man, doesn’t it Boxcost...
 


 

I agree, he (Sinclair) is a good bloke
 
 

[pparker]

Thanks all, this is very helpful.  My doc and I didn't get as far as discussing NMN last week, so I'm on my own for a few more weeks and intend to continue taking NMN (and resveratrol), but probably limit to 500 mg most days and try to skip entirely on weekends.

Paul

[drkris69]

Yep Im backing Dr. David Sinclair and his work. He is the leading Dr. in the longevity field by far....

[Newage]

Yep Im backing Dr. David Sinclair and his work. He is the leading Dr. in the longevity field by far....

 

I agree drkris69. I would rather listen to and trust David Sinclair’s advice compared to 99% of the Politicians that run our respective countries..